Comments on: easter: wrestling with the church http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/ making lives better, making better lives Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:02:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: orly nail polish http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-843747 orly nail polish Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:22:39 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-843747 Valuable info. Lucky me I discovered your site accidentally, and I'm surprised why this accident didn't took place earlier! I bookmarked it. Valuable info. Lucky me I discovered your site accidentally, and I’m surprised why this accident didn’t took place earlier! I bookmarked it.

]]> By: marian http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-426059 marian Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:45:47 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-426059 what a fantastic and worthwhile discussion! in my mind there certainly is no question re: appropriateness of isabella blogging her expereince. truth is truth. i can honor yours. can you honor mine? thank you! what a fantastic and worthwhile discussion! in my mind there certainly is no question re: appropriateness of isabella blogging her expereince. truth is truth.
i can honor yours. can you honor mine?
thank you!

]]> By: isabella mori http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-422978 isabella mori Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:08:55 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-422978 first of all, i'm really touched by all the comments, whatever nature they are. while i try my best for all that i write to come from my heart, this one was written with a bit more "heart blood" (as we say in german) than others. @aaron, i'm happy that you didn't take these words as a criticism of the jesus faith. thanks. @david - thanks for the invitation to dialogue! perhaps we can do that in a different space, though - i really don't want this post to turn into a "what didn't work" rant. how about we have a chat on skype or some such place, and then if we feel like it we can publish it? first of all, i’m really touched by all the comments, whatever nature they are. while i try my best for all that i write to come from my heart, this one was written with a bit more “heart blood” (as we say in german) than others.

@aaron, i’m happy that you didn’t take these words as a criticism of the jesus faith. thanks.

@david – thanks for the invitation to dialogue! perhaps we can do that in a different space, though – i really don’t want this post to turn into a “what didn’t work” rant. how about we have a chat on skype or some such place, and then if we feel like it we can publish it?

]]> By: Aaron http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-422835 Aaron Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:20:39 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-422835 I enjoyed your article Isabella. Almost everything that you wrote I have experienced in my own career as a Christian, and in many ways you have helped me find the words to explain why I walk in this path. I will try and direct this article to others. I enjoyed your article Isabella. Almost everything that you wrote I have experienced in my own career as a Christian, and in many ways you have helped me find the words to explain why I walk in this path. I will try and direct this article to others.

]]> By: david sellers http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-422655 david sellers Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:07:56 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-422655 Isabella, Thank you for your openness and honesty in regards to your easter experience. I’m a pastor in the United Methodist denomination and for the most part find it refreshing to see the side of isn’t enmeshed in the church. I resonate with your experience of Easter in one way. I had the chance to not preach this Easter ( a rarity) and only prayed during the service. The church service was for the most part a total disconnect for me. It was so much that I ran from the service and grabbed from my office one of my favorite author’s writing on Easter. It put me in a more celebrative mood of what the message and celebration of Easter is to me, which is the message of hope and the celebration that Christ arose (regardless of whether you take it literally or metaphorically). I’m curious though what were some of the notions that you considered “wrongheaded,” and also what your idea of an ideal Easter service would be like? I ask this not as a chance to judge, but for curiosity sake and in all honesty perhaps for dialogue as well. I’ve been struggling with the disconnect. I think the majority of it has to do with the songs that were sung during the service. They were primarily Good Friday and heavy cross-laden hymns. Easter should have Easter songs about an empty tomb and life NOT blood and agony. I also have a brief comment for the anonymous. I really feel for your experience with christians (intentional). While it is true there are many who use their religion in a selfish manner, I’ve had the chance to be in the presence of those that truly try to live it. I’ve served some churches that I’ve wanted to give up because of their beliefs and actions but just when I think about it along comes a true saint that inspires me to keep going. Isabella,
Thank you for your openness and honesty in regards to your easter experience. I’m a pastor in the United Methodist denomination and for the most part find it refreshing to see the side of isn’t enmeshed in the church.
I resonate with your experience of Easter in one way. I had the chance to not preach this Easter ( a rarity) and only prayed during the service. The church service was for the most part a total disconnect for me. It was so much that I ran from the service and grabbed from my office one of my favorite author’s writing on Easter. It put me in a more celebrative mood of what the message and celebration of Easter is to me, which is the message of hope and the celebration that Christ arose (regardless of whether you take it literally or metaphorically).
I’m curious though what were some of the notions that you considered “wrongheaded,” and also what your idea of an ideal Easter service would be like? I ask this not as a chance to judge, but for curiosity sake and in all honesty perhaps for dialogue as well. I’ve been struggling with the disconnect. I think the majority of it has to do with the songs that were sung during the service. They were primarily Good Friday and heavy cross-laden hymns. Easter should have Easter songs about an empty tomb and life NOT blood and agony.
I also have a brief comment for the anonymous. I really feel for your experience with christians (intentional). While it is true there are many who use their religion in a selfish manner, I’ve had the chance to be in the presence of those that truly try to live it. I’ve served some churches that I’ve wanted to give up because of their beliefs and actions but just when I think about it along comes a true saint that inspires me to keep going.

]]> By: isabella mori http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-422084 isabella mori Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:10:13 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-422084 @jan, thanks for writing a blog reply so quickly! i'm going to try and reply ASAP - some time this week. @jan, thanks for writing a blog reply so quickly! i’m going to try and reply ASAP – some time this week.

]]> By: isabella mori http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-422083 isabella mori Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:08:49 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-422083 here are a few thoughts by someone who preferred to stay anonymous: "I am an atheist, but a very christian one at that. I became an atheist because I was disillusioned that no christians I knew or read about really acted like christians. I like the idea of mourning coupled *with* action. If I feel bad about some injustice, I try to think about what I can do personally to help. I think too many people stop at "it's such a big problem I may as well not even think about it at all." I agree with almost everything you said in your Easter church post, except the part about fierce action - few christians really practice what they should. Here's a religion that could be about social justice, but the majority use it to further their own selfish interests or as a simple relaxation technique. It's rather a waste of a religion. Then there's the part about the utter defeat embodied in the symbolism of the crucifixion - I can't say I feel that it was the most horrific way to die and the fact that simpler-minded, North American christians think it is, it's quite frankly an insult to the people being tortured and murdered right now. I think *all* torture and murder is wrong, not just Jesus', but many people seem to stop their caring 2000 years ago with just this one victim. I really wish christians would extend their caring to more than just themselves. Anyhow, I do apologize for sounding rant-y - I really enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. I liked that you took notes in church. :)" here are a few thoughts by someone who preferred to stay anonymous:

“I am an atheist, but a very christian one at that.

I became an atheist because I was disillusioned that no christians I knew or read about really acted like christians. I like the idea of mourning coupled *with* action. If I feel bad about some injustice, I try to think about what I can do personally to help. I think too many people stop at “it’s such a big problem I may as well not even think about it at all.”

I agree with almost everything you said in your Easter church post, except the part about fierce action – few christians really practice what they should. Here’s a religion that could be about social justice, but the majority use it to further their own selfish interests or as a simple relaxation technique. It’s rather a waste of
a religion.

Then there’s the part about the utter defeat embodied in the symbolism of the crucifixion – I can’t say I feel that it was the most horrific way to die and the fact that simpler-minded, North American christians think it is, it’s quite frankly an insult to the people being tortured and murdered right now. I think *all* torture and murder is wrong, not just Jesus’, but many people seem to stop their caring 2000 years ago with just this one victim. I really wish christians would extend their caring to more than just themselves.

Anyhow, I do apologize for sounding rant-y – I really enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. I liked that you took notes in church. :) ”

]]> By: Jan Karlsbjerg http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-421928 Jan Karlsbjerg Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:43:16 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-421928 @isabella: "Prepackaged" is obviously my word, not their word. I take it to mean that if they buy in to the meaning from a particular religion, then they don't have to (and are strongly discouraged from!) mix up their own sense of "meaning". If fact I don't know how many churchgoers I know. I know one for sure (moneycoach), and I know others that I know go to church, but where I've never talked about religion with them. Thankfully, religion is mostly a private matter in the circles where I come. I wrote up the long-form of my comment above about the churchgoers who don't believe a word, but really want to: "<a href="http://www.jankarlsbjerg.com/blog/archives/2008/03/24/spiritual-atheists-want-to-believe/">Spiritual atheists want to believe</a>". <em>Jan Karlsbjerg's last blog post..<a href='http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/JanKarlsbjerg/~3/257266700/'>Spiritual atheists want to believe</a></em> @isabella: “Prepackaged” is obviously my word, not their word. I take it to mean that if they buy in to the meaning from a particular religion, then they don’t have to (and are strongly discouraged from!) mix up their own sense of “meaning”.

If fact I don’t know how many churchgoers I know. I know one for sure (moneycoach), and I know others that I know go to church, but where I’ve never talked about religion with them.

Thankfully, religion is mostly a private matter in the circles where I come.

I wrote up the long-form of my comment above about the churchgoers who don’t believe a word, but really want to: “Spiritual atheists want to believe“.

Jan Karlsbjerg’s last blog post..Spiritual atheists want to believe

]]> By: Wendi http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-421883 Wendi Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:47:32 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-421883 Wow. This is so interesting! Your post really resonated with me, Isabella. A cradle Episcopalian, I stopped going to church in June of last year when it suddenly struck me that I didn't know why I was there, or what I believed after all those years. I love Easter, and I considered attending services yesterday, but in the end, I decided I could just love Easter and the idea of resurrection and renewal and let all the rest go. Reading that first comment hit me right between the eyes (originally typed "ideas" while thinking eyes - interesting) and I felt the full measure of guilt I've been denying for the last almost year about not going and not believing all that I was taught to believe. Thanks, Mark, for bringing that to light for me. It is exactly that attitude and that underside of Christianity that drove me out of the pews last summer. Conditional love. No thanks. ;-) That's not what does this world any good, and it certainly isn't what Jesus came to teach us, IMHO. Thanks everybody for the interesting discussion! Wow. This is so interesting! Your post really resonated with me, Isabella. A cradle Episcopalian, I stopped going to church in June of last year when it suddenly struck me that I didn’t know why I was there, or what I believed after all those years. I love Easter, and I considered attending services yesterday, but in the end, I decided I could just love Easter and the idea of resurrection and renewal and let all the rest go.

Reading that first comment hit me right between the eyes (originally typed “ideas” while thinking eyes – interesting) and I felt the full measure of guilt I’ve been denying for the last almost year about not going and not believing all that I was taught to believe. Thanks, Mark, for bringing that to light for me. It is exactly that attitude and that underside of Christianity that drove me out of the pews last summer. Conditional love. No thanks. ;-) That’s not what does this world any good, and it certainly isn’t what Jesus came to teach us, IMHO. Thanks everybody for the interesting discussion!

]]> By: isabella mori http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-421867 isabella mori Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:00:03 +0000 http://www.moritherapy.org/article/easter-wrestling-with-the-church/#comment-421867 easter is important to me on a gut level, most of it coming from my history. it's a pretty important celebration in germany (where pentecoast is also celebrated, something that most people here don't even know about). also, my father's family comes from a russian background. in the the orthodox churches, easter is the important celebration, not christmas. i kind of understand the importance of most of the easter story (death, sacrifice, separation, resurrection) on a superficially intellectual level. i THINK i get it on a very, very deep, yet-completely-inarticulate level. on the level at which most of my understanding occurs - a nice mixture of emotion and intellect - i don't get it. and that bugs me. so i keep looking at it from various angles, trying to see if i can glean a bit more understanding here and there. question: you say you "think most churchgoers are looking for meaning and hope they can get one prepackaged". i'm interested what "prepackaged" might mean to the churchgoers with whom you have conversations. do you know? easter is important to me on a gut level, most of it coming from my history. it’s a pretty important celebration in germany (where pentecoast is also celebrated, something that most people here don’t even know about). also, my father’s family comes from a russian background. in the the orthodox churches, easter is the important celebration, not christmas.

i kind of understand the importance of most of the easter story (death, sacrifice, separation, resurrection) on a superficially intellectual level. i THINK i get it on a very, very deep, yet-completely-inarticulate level. on the level at which most of my understanding occurs – a nice mixture of emotion and intellect – i don’t get it. and that bugs me. so i keep looking at it from various angles, trying to see if i can glean a bit more understanding here and there.

question: you say you “think most churchgoers are looking for meaning and hope they can get one prepackaged”. i’m interested what “prepackaged” might mean to the churchgoers with whom you have conversations. do you know?

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